Extron RGB interfaces and cables

[Milsancho]

Hi.

After some e-mails I now have a better knowledge of sync modes on Playstations so I’ll just explain my issue in case there’s any suggestion you can think of. I have an Extron RGB interface which I want to try at 15 kHz to deinterlace the pixel-doubled pictures from the PS2 and DC games which do that, likely others as well. I don’t have a sync stripper, so I was thinking about getting the best cables to plug these systems into the interface. As it seems it only supports C-sync or sync-on-green, a sync-on-luma RGB cable from RGC won’t do, so it seems I’ll need a C-sync cable for the PS1/PS2 and another for the DC no matter what (seems these are better even for PQ than using a Sync Strike).

The problem is how to input those in the interface. RGC doesn’t make custom cables at the moment, so that nice cable they sold months ago is not an option:

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/image/cache/catalog/extron-228×228.JPG

I can’t rely on any SCART-DB15 you find out there, can I?

Surprisingly, the Extron’s output may be an issue too (BNC-SCART). I’m not sure if RGC’s solutions are OK for a Trinitron TV set, since apparently the Extron’s output is TTL RGB sync, which may harm a TV set as it is for voltage reasons? Anyway, they’re out of stock, with no answer regarding when they’ll be making more.

[BuckoA51]

There’s no clean sync output on the PS2 so you will need a sync cleaner for that. PS2 only outputs sync on green at 480p.

On the Dreamcast I believe a modded VGA box will output 480i clean sync but I can’t say for sure.

I don’t know about the input side if Retro Gaming Cables can’t help, did you try Keene? For the output side you should really have 75ohm sync and you might also need voltage on the RGB up pin on the SCART. Try ArcadeForge’s UMSA – http://arcadeforge.net/UMSA:::15.html

[Milsancho]

There’s someone who makes RGB SCART cables for the DC with sync cleaner on E-Bay, so that part would be solved. I’ll ask him if he’d be willing to make all the Extron cables I need and then try with Keene, but I’m about giving up.

When I was deciding the purchase of the Extron interface (which was really hard to find in my country), I checked the RGC site and the input/output didn’t seem to be an issue since not only did they have the cables available, they even had notes suggesting their use with these interfaces. Now it seems that they even advise against this, and the output cable/adapter isn’t suited for TV sets by themselves (I guess PVMs are OK?).

Adding an UMSA to the chain is nuts for this only purpose of mine: Extron 30 € + input adapter ~25 € + UMSA 30 € + BNC-DB15 ~15 € + SCART-SCART 25 €, total ~125 € not counting the sync cleaner console cables… Not worthy.

Thanks for clarifying.

By the way, I find it funny that an Extron does support sync-on-luma S-video but doesn’t sync-on-luma RGB. Has this really been tested and confirmed?

[BuckoA51]

The Extron interfaces don’t support S-Video at all. Btw, who told you the Extron interfaces output TTL sync? All the datasheets I can find says it’s 75ohm.

[Milsancho]

The S-video support is discussed in this thread I sent you before:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1175071&sid=9f790e3f7f7de7eb9fe47f8a7e3d9f76#p1175071

The TTL sync issue, here:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1264388&sid=5c9b3da47e1da86b0ea15efde12f3492#p1264388

[BuckoA51]

Ah right, he’s feeding in S-video luma/chroma on the RGB pins which makes sense, the RGB pins would have enough bandwidth to carry a luma/chroma signal, the sync pin doesn’t have enough bandwidth to carry the entire composite video signal.

Looks like the issue with sync isn’t that it’s TTL just the voltage is too high. Not sure how to go about correcting this.

[Milsancho]

So should I definitely forget about using RGC’s solution directly or with an UMSA, for the interface-to-Trinitron TV set connection?

As for the S-video thing, a PS1/PS2 luma-sync RGB SCART cable (+ adapter) won’t do for using the RGB signal on the interface?

Thanks.

[BuckoA51]

So should I definitely forget about using RGC’s solution directly or with an UMSA, for the interface-to-Trinitron TV set connection?

I’ve done similar in the past and it’s been fine, but I didn’t realise it was out of spec (assuming I’m understanding everything correctly here of course), which could cause wear and tear to your CRT, so I guess the choice is yours.

Putting the Extron interface output through an UMSA would be safe since that would (or at least should!) correct the signal down to SCART spec levels, but people have been criticising ArcadeForge’s customer support lately which is a shame as they make some useful hardware.

As for the S-video thing, a PS1/PS2 luma-sync RGB SCART cable (+ adapter) won’t do for using the RGB signal on the interface?

No, the interface cannot accept anything other than clean sync, simply is not equipped to handle it.

[Milsancho]

Putting the Extron interface output through an UMSA would be safe since that would (or at least should!) correct the signal down to SCART spec levels, but people have been criticising ArcadeForge’s customer support lately which is a shame as they make some useful hardware.

I think I’m going to try this solution. Hopefully Arcade Forge has solved their issues by now. Should I be careful with the interface-to-UMSA cable, or any BNC-VGA15 will do? (I’m thinking about the input/output direction options you can find in RGC solution.)

[BuckoA51]

VGA isn’t directional like SCART so any cable should do.

[Milsancho]

So that means the SCART-to-SCART cables are directional, so that you need to plug them according to the device’s requirement? Always thought they were the same for both sides!

[BuckoA51]

Yes for whatever reason certain SCART cables are directional, just to add more confusion to the standard. SCART to SCART is not affected just things like RGB in and OUT are different.

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