Taito F3 Arcade Board Won't Sync With OSSC; Works with Framemeister

[marqs]

Okay, good to hear are no differences between mother/game boards – I’ll update the wikipage then. As for using AV3 (RGBS) for other sources, it should work fine for non-interlaced sources but there might be issues with interlace. Also, there is no dedicated LPF on that input.

[vasilas432]

Using RGBS
as far as I tried pcbs are working. Wii via RGB had a hard time to sync even though it synced once, maybe playng with settings. After Wii I was disappointed and stopped testing. I had an idea to connect in AV3 RGBS all retro consoles which are connected on Extron. I dropped the idea but may test again

Capcom pcbs connected to Extron and then to OSSC via AV3 ARE NOT loosing sync. It would solve a very big issue for me

EDIT: I still can do if I had a bnc to vga female cable as an output. Then I could source all Capcom board via Extron to AV3 and everything else to OSSC’s scart input

[vasilas432]

After some days of testing I can tell OSSC easily destroys the framemeister in picture and color quality. Via hdmi Extron I have both upscalers playing the same content at the same time in 2 different monitors. OSSC is so so so much better. Frameister looks like garbage with washed out colors. Some pcbs aren’t even compatible with scanlines like UMK, MK2, R-Type and more. To help someone understand the difference in picture quality I tell that even my 27″ Dell monitor while displaying via OSSC can look far better than my 55″ LG oled while displaying via framemeister. If I use OSSC with the Oled (which this is my main setup)image is perfect with gorgeous scanlines. Of course the TV can play 5x at 1600×1200 without issues

Regarding Taito F3 OSSC syncs perfectly via vga input and has a great picture but framemeister has a vertical shaking and is unplayable. I bought framemeister 2 weeks ago and I remember in the first head to head comparison with OSSC there wasn’t any shaking. But now there is one. I can’t tell what happened or I may remember wrong. Despite that F3 compatibility is a framemester’s common issue, some people say they have stable sync with it.

Anyway I am very glad that F3 turned out to have a perfect picture with OSSC and in general OSSC is compatible with all pcbs that I have in my possession. Framemester has sync issues with Revenge of Death Adder but can be fixed unlike f3

[ShootTheCore]

I recently picked up an oscilloscope and used it to take samples of my non-OSSC-syncing F3 board in case the output differs enough from marqs’s board to be useful. As a reminder, my symptoms are:

OSSC display: 261p, 15.44kHz, 59.18 Hz
After pressing Info on the remote, OSSC display: VMod: 256×240 LC: 162 VSM: 2
LED is Red with no output signal
The same board and SCART video cable syncs perfectly with the Framemeister, but I haven’t been able to get it to work on the OSSC even with changing the inputs, power cycling, and adjusting the H-PLL Pre-coast and Post-coast to 4.

Scope output with sync signal and red signal on the board’s gradient monitor test screen:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uzuscrgfzkajwje/Red2.jpg?dl=0

Scope output with sync signal and red signal while the game is running:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8cm079xeq7atu2/red.jpg?dl=0

I’m going to try VGA instead of SCART next, but SCART sync would be preferred if it is possible.

[vasilas432]

OSSC through VGA plays perfectly.Why your framemeister plays F3 without issues? Mine has image move up and down all the time…

[marqs]

@ShootTheCore: could you take trace(s) of vblank portion as well? What I assume you’ll find out is successive “1”-fields (vsync starts mid-line instead of beginning of line) which is something that the digitizer chip cannot properly handle with analog sync path (e.g. SCART input).

[ShootTheCore]

Marqs, forgive my newbie-ness – I still have a lot to learn. Where do I sample the vblank from on the Taito F3 board?

Just wondering – is there any way to mod the F3 to clean up the output so it would work over OSSC SCART? For example, would your CPS2 Digital AV board wire into the F3?

Some people have recommended this other mod to me, but even though the directions specifically say it’s for the F3, I’m skeptical that it would work:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=ntls.jp%2Fmanual%2FCSyncCleaner_Manual.pdf&edit-text=

[marqs]

@ShootTheCore I meant capturing vblank portion of the csync signal which you already probed. You can easily trigger to it via negative pulse width trigger (> hsync_width). It should look similar to this, but with a mid-line vsync starting position.

[videogameperfectionrocks]

Contrary to what the wiki says I’m not able to get F3 to sync unless I also change Vsync Threshold to 30.76 as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Also it works at 2x but not at 5x.

Is better support for F3 coming to the OSSC?

[videogameperfectionrocks]

It turns out I don’t need to change Vsync Threshold from default and 2x, 3x, and 4x do work but not 5x. What was causing me trouble is the fact that it only works about half the time for me. I can turn on the OSSC, turn on the supergun, and if it doesn’t sync I can turn off the supergun while leaving the OSSC on but not changing any of its settings and I may need to turn the supergun off and on a few times but eventually it does work. Has anyone else had consistency issues like that? The game works every time connected directly to the monitor via S-video.

Also I noticed there is kind of a wave effect through the right-most part of the image that is easiest to spot at the very top and bottom of the image. Anyone else seeing that?

[ShootTheCore]

What SuperGun are you using with your setup?

Ultimately, I was able to achieve a perfect sync with 5X upscaling on my Taito F3 and HAS SuperGun by using a VGA cable connection instead of SCART. The creator of the HAS has constructed a specific VGA output adapter specifically for use with the Taito F3. The VGA connection separates the horizontal and vertical sync signals so that the OSSC can lock on accurately. SCART mixes them.

[videogameperfectionrocks]

I wish the HAS was available. I’m using a Sigma AV7000 supergun. I tried VGA from the Sigma into the OSSC but the PIN pattern is different on the Sigma VGA cable so I had to use an adapter between it and the OSSC and it doesn’t work.

[ShootTheCore]

The HAS is available – you just have to get on a waiting list for it. There’s also a new, inexpensive SuperGun called the Sentinel that’s coming out which ships with VGA output. Details here:
https://www.arcade-projects.com/forums/index.php?thread/5942-sentinel-supergun-prototype/

The Sigma AV7000 is also a great SuperGun, but you really need to use VGA instead of SCART to get the best sync with the Taito F3. I did a lot of back-and-forth with Marqs and other knowledgable people and ultimately using VGA was the best solution at the end.

[videogameperfectionrocks]

Is the HAS shipping? I’m on the waiting list but haven’t heard anything yet.

Can the HAS or Sentinel connect to HDMI and VGA outputs at the same time or would I need to disconnect/reconnect on the supergun side when switching between F3 and other PCBs?

[ShootTheCore]

RGB is shipping out a new HAS batch right now – I’ve seen posts about people receiving theirs. You should contact him to see where you are on the waiting list.

I believe both the HAS and Sentinel can output SCART RGB and VGA simultaneously with the latest designs.

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