Issue with DExx-vd_isl (DE10-nano) in scaler mode

[prrdrn]

Hey!

I’m very happy with my DExx-vd_isl in adaptive line multiplication mode. Sadly the scaler mode is giving me issues in 720p and up.

See: https://youtu.be/4QtuyaRs70E

OutRun on PS2 in 480p RGsB scaled to 1080p (same issue in 480i, tested both PS2 w/ RGC cable and GameCube PAL with Nintendo SCART cable). Seen here on a Sony FHD but I have the same weirdness on my LG C1.

Am I missing something or is it that I am unlucky with my particular setup/DExx/DE-10?

I’m using the DE10-Nano as a MiSTER as well, and it works flawlessly in any output resolution (including 2560×1440).

Thanks!

[L-Train]

You’re not unlucky as I also see the issue in scaler mode with 240p sources scaled to 720p or 1080p. I’ve tried with an old Samsung HDTV from 2008 and a more recent Samsung LCD monitor (using an HDMI to DVI adapter) and the jitter is the same on both. When scaling to 720p it’s less jittery but still there. It seems to be similar to the issue here: https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/dexx-video-jitter/, but my pin header is stock and cleaning it with isopropyl alcohol yielded no improvement.

As with you, line multiplication modes (pure/adaptive) work great and without issue. I’m also on the latest firmware (0.59). I haven’t tried reverting to older firmware yet, but perhaps they may work better?

[BuckoA51]

Hmm, I promise I never saw anything like that in testing, I use an LG C9. I wonder could you try the experimental GPIO1 firmware? https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/dexx-vd_isl-in-de-10-nano-gpio-1-port/

[prrdrn]

L-Train: You’re right, I have tried with my PAL Saturn in 288p and it’s the same. A bit less jumpy in 720p as well, but not great. If I remember correctly (I’m away from home and my C1) I could not have a display on any resolutions higher that 1080 either.

Buckoa51: Thanks I’ll try and report back!

Unrelated I’m sure but on this Sony TV, I don’t have sound unless I toggle 16/48 to 96 and back in the options. Anyone having that issue?

[prrdrn]

OK, so I see the same issue with the alternative firmware – if a bit less “jumpy”. I can’t test the sound as my cable is not long enough.

See video: https://youtu.be/E4M3QV7NmbQ

[prrdrn]

Hey it’s me again.

To the surprise of absolutely nobody, my HDMI cables where all sh… noise prone, or something. I tried a (presumably of better quality) Xbox One cable – one with the little ferrite cores – and the jitter is gone in scaler mode. I’ve seen the issue once after that, while in 480p SoG mode, but a quick cycle between sampling presets and it fixed itself. Next I’ll put back the default GPIO firmware, but I have no reasons to think it’ll be any different.

I have no idea yet regarding the sound behavior stated earlier though.

Cheers!

[BuckoA51]

Interesting, I wouldn’t have thought that the 1080p output was particularly taxing on the HDMI cable but good to know. Maybe @L-Train can you try that in your setup too?

[prrdrn]

Also some weird thing is definitely going on with my setup. I don’t know about you L-Train, but I can barely come close to my DE10 when in DExx mode because I’m receiving small shocks of electricity whenever an HDMI cable is connected – even if the DE-10 itself is *not* plugged into the wall (the TV is). Should I worry more about this “leak”? ^^’

I mean, I’m used to feeling a tingling when using an old MacBook Pro unibody not grounded, but here it’s quite a bit more. Painful I’d say.

[BuckoA51]

You got some sort of HDMI switch in the chain too?

[prrdrn]

Nope it’s a direct connection to the TV. I narrowed it down to having to have both the HDMI *and* the Scart plugged in. Only the TV and the console need to be plugged into the wall (both on the same basic powerstrip, both without ground plugs) for this to happen.

[BuckoA51]

Sounds like something is not properly grounded on the SCART cable maybe?

[marqs]

Do you get similar shock from just the SCART plug if you disconnect it from DExx board? Which console is in question and what kind of PSU you have for it (original one or modern replacement)?

[prrdrn]

Hi marqs,

Thanks for tuning in, but I don’t want to be a nuisance if it’s something no-one else is experiencing…

To answer your questions:
– No I don’t get any shocks if I touch the SCART connector unplugged from the DExx board (an RGC Sync On Luma PS2 cable and an Sega RGB for Saturn)
– Those are PAL PS2 (soft modded) and PAL Saturn (Fenrir) with their original internal PSUs (no DC to DC shenanigans)

[prrdrn]

More on topic: I’ve just checked the scaler mode with the original firmware (regular GPIO), and jitter is back… So I don’t know what to say. I’d have to do more tests for sure.

[marqs]

The expansion card is sensitive to noise since its ground connection to host board (DE10-Nano) is not as good as it’d be on a single PCB design. Normally there shouldn’t be issues with <=1080p output even in scaler mode (which has more switching and thus generates more noise internally), but if there's external noise or ground loop through the board, then there might be visible issues.

When you see the jitter, could you check if entering “Bind IR remote” function via settings menu (stops I2C traffic) has any effect on it (after testing, press PCB KEY1 to cancel remote setup)? Previously I2C caused occasional disturbances (perhaps due to temporary multidrive) but I thought that got resolved by minimizing its slew rate & drive strength.

GPIO1 seems a bit better overall from signal integrity perspective as I’ve managed to get even 1080p->1440p running stable with it.

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