March 8, 2018 at 2:04 AM #19908
Just got my OSSC and am connecting up a Dreamcast, PS2, and original Xbox (all PAL). Dreamcast is going through a Hanzo VGA box and works perfectly, right off the bat! Only thing I’ve had to alter is my preference for scanlines on that one!
With the PS2 and Xbox though, I’m having some trouble. On the PS2, connecting via a RGC Sync-on-Luma RGB SCART cable, on games that run at 50hz, I get a black border all the way around the screen. I should note that I’ve only tried games that output at 576i. See below:-
If I switch that same game to 60hz, I get black borders either side.
This bordering occurs on both a Samsung 4k TV and via an Elgato Game Capture HD60 Pro, so I’m assuming it’s a setting somewhere rather than an incompatibility. The PS2 profile on the OSSC has been reset to default settings (other than to turn off deinterlacing by setting it to passthru.) Does anybody have a set of “recommended” settings for the PS2 that would produce a full-screen image? Or what should I change?
Finally, the Xbox. I’m forcing PAL-60 on the console and it’s connected via an RGC RGB Scart cable. It all technically works – no borders or anything like that, but it has some pretty rough edges about the place. Is there anything I can change to improve the sharpness a tad?
Thanks for any assistance in advance – absolutely loving the OSSC so far! (Mainly because it’s given me an excuse to give the Dreamcast a permanent place in the entertainment unit…) 🙂March 8, 2018 at 6:14 AM #19912
With the Dreamcast, since you’re going through VGA, make sure you set 480p in sampler to DTV 480p, otherwise the aspect ratio is going to be wrong.
Regarding the PS2, I believe what you’re seeing is overscan. On CRTs, those black areas are usually drawn beyond the viewable screen area; but modern flat-panel displays (LCD, [O]LED, etc.) will display the full frame. If you don’t want to see the overscan areas, you can try playing with the aspect ratio setting in the system settings menu, but I believe you’ll need to either use your TV’s zoom functionality or get a secondary scaler that can handle zooming or cropping of overscan; the OSSC was not designed for that kind of image manipulation.
For the Xbox, someone more experienced may need to chime in, but I think it could just be poor scaling on the part of your TV. Does your TV definitely recognize the signal as PAL60, or does it think it’s NTSC? Generally, I recommend using a softmod to change the video region to NTSC, so you can take advantage of 480p, 720p, and 1080i.March 8, 2018 at 7:59 PM #19932GummiParticipant
I’m sure I don’t need to tell you but the black borders on the sides are normal, they should be bigger in fact unless the game supports 16:9 or you like the image to be stretched. I could be wrong, but I think the border you’re seeing at the top is simply the unfortunate PAL squish, where a game has not been optimized for the 576 PAL resolution and is instead simply the 480 NTSC resolution with black bars in the extra lines of horizontal resolution, resulting in a squished image. A very common thing in PAL games. When you switch to PAL60, the resolution changes to 480 lines, eliminating the squish and the black bars. One of the many reasons to mostly avoid PAL consoles and games for pre-HD consoles.
Edit: The photo isn’t good enough to be able to tell what’s going on with the XBOX. And what do you mean by rough edges? Are you sure your TV’s sharpness setting isn’t making it look worse? Kinda looks like sharpening artifacts in the photo, but it’s too blurry to tell.March 9, 2018 at 3:20 AM #19939
@nmalinoski – All duly noted, and the Dreamcast tip was spot on. I hadn’t set it to DTV 480p and hadn’t even noticed the aspect ratio issue until I did!
Regards to the Xbox – yep, the TV is recognizing it as PAL60 for sure, as opposed to NTSC. It’s modded and I’ve tried forcing NTSC M on the console and for some reason, it defaults back to PAL as soon as I reboot. I might reflash and see how that goes.
@Gummi – Of course, the PS2 is the old PAL squish! I didn’t even think of it! It’s been so long since I’ve actually run into the borders when using a console that it never even crossed my mind. That’s one thing sorted – thanks!
As for the Xbox, what I mean by “rough edges” is that text and other items seem as if they’re “ghosted” almost. I’ve tried to get a better snapshot of the issue…
It’s not the end of the world, but it’s definitely noticeable. In that photo, it almost looks as if most of the letters have drop shadows on them. I assure you that the photo itself isn’t blurred – the blurriness on the screen is the problem I’m talking about! 🙂 I’m not expecting it to be pin-sharp, but if you look at the left edges of the green letters, or the “1” in the line “F: 10,755.25”, you’ll see what I mean. That 1 almost looks like it’s been photographed mid-change while it was counting up or something, but it’s a static number.
The PS2 is far crisper across the board, so I’m thinking there’s some setting on either the OSSC or on the Xbox itself that I need to change to get it up to par.March 9, 2018 at 11:34 AM #19947BuckoA51Keymaster
For Dreamcast, if supported by your display it is also recommended to set H.active to 640 in the advanced timing menu.
Xbox – Are you running in 480p or interlace there?March 9, 2018 at 1:44 PM #19953
Hi @BuckoA51 – I assumed I was running 480p, but having double-checked, it turns out I was running 525i. Try as I might, I couldn’t get the dash to enable 480p over SCART (I don’t know if that’s a limitation of RGB SCART or the Xbox?) so I dug out an Xbox component cable and everything’s looking muuuuuuuch better now in what the OSSC is reporting as 525p.
So if anybody needs a Retro Game Cables Xbox RGB SCART, turns out I kinda have one spare… 😀March 9, 2018 at 5:53 PM #19956
I assumed I was running 480p, but having double-checked, it turns out I was running 525i. Try as I might, I couldn’t get the dash to enable 480p over SCART (I don’t know if that’s a limitation of RGB SCART or the Xbox?)
525i sounds right for PAL60 (NTSC frame size with PAL subcarrier, right?).
As I’ve understood it till now, PAL Xboxes only allow for PAL and PAL60, and you would need to use a softmod to change the video region to NTSC to gain access to 480p, 720p, and 1080i. This might not be correct if, as you’re suggesting, simply connecting a component cable lets you enable 480p; in that case, it sounds like the Xbox is indeed limited to 480i/576i over RGB SCART.
To make absolutely sure, I think we’d need to see how the Xbox behaves with the SCART cable and the video region set to NTSC.March 9, 2018 at 7:03 PM #19961
@nmalinoski – Sorry, I wasn’t particularly clear, there. I used Enigmah to alter the region to NTSC M before testing with the SCART. With NTSC M/SCART, it’s 480i or nothing, essentially. Enabling 480p win that configuration and then rebooting, results in the 480p setting changing back to “off.” So I assume the console is limited to 480i/525i over SCART.
With the region set to NTSC M and the console hooked up via component, I can enable 480p or even 720p (not that I need to go that far!) and it all seems to run just fine. There are faint diagonal lines going on in scenes with large blocks of colour, but unless there’s an easy fix for that, I’m not massively bothered by it. 🙂
Just waiting on a Dreamcast RGB cable (since the Elgato Game Capture HD60 Pro is kicking up a fuss with the Hanzo and OSSC) and my setup will be complete! 🙂March 10, 2018 at 12:04 PM #19978BuckoA51Keymaster
Try as I might, I couldn’t get the dash to enable 480p over SCART (I don’t know if that’s a limitation of RGB SCART or the Xbox?)
Yes you’re right 480i is the maximum with a SCART cable on the Xbox. It’s not a physical limitation of SCART or anything like that, but support for 480p and greater resolutions via SCART is rare on consumer devices and in fact feeding 480p to a set that only supports 480i can damage it, so most devices only support 480p via component video or VGA and lock it out when a SCART cable is connected.
Dreamcast also is limited to 240p or 480i via SCART unless you use something like a Toro VGA box.March 10, 2018 at 7:09 PM #19983
With the region set to NTSC M and the console hooked up via component, I can enable 480p or even 720p (not that I need to go that far!) and it all seems to run just fine. There are faint diagonal lines going on in scenes with large blocks of colour, but unless there’s an easy fix for that, I’m not massively bothered by it. ?
My assumption would be that the diagonal lines are likely interference due to low-quality cabling.
Unfortunately, good-quality Xbox component cables are hard to come by, but you have a few options. You can track down either the High-Definition AV Pack* or the Monster Cable equivalent, both of which support digital audio; or you can try emailing RetroGamingCables.co.uk to see if they would be willing to build you a component cable. (Sadly, Retro-Access.com doesn’t have any Xbox cables, and I’m not sure HD Retrovision has anything planned for the original Xbox.)
* This is the official Microsoft breakout box, which has outputs for YPbPr component, analog stereo audio over RCA, and digital stereo/surround audio via TOSLINK. You might be able to find one with the original cables, but, if not, you can always just get a good, shielded 5x male RCA to male RCA component AV cable; and be sure to inspect the photos before buying–I came across one seller on eBay who was selling one with a connector that had started to rust.March 11, 2018 at 4:15 AM #19991
@BuckoA51 – Good to know, thanks!
@nmalinoski – Yeah, I think you might be right. Had a buddy come over and bring his OG Xbox component cable (which looks identical to mine) and there’s a big difference. He appears to have gotten lucky with whichever seller of unbranded cables he got his from! I’ll drop RGC a line and see if they’d be interested in putting together a component cable (while also keeping one eye out for a Monster cable that isn’t $80, just in case!)
Thanks for your help!
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