OSSC sync issues combined with Extron crosspoint Ultra 168

[darkstrider2]

So I tested it just now. I tested with both with and without ’10+’. It didn’t matter, CPS3 was still dropping.

The weird part is that I’m able to play CPS2 a whole MVC1 for a whole 30 minutes with no drops. So feeling that it’s not gonna drop, I switched boards. But once I switched systems to a new one(CPS3) (w/ OSSC still on) the OSSC started dropping. At that point (OSSC w/ ’10+’ didn’t help). But then when I switched back to CPS2 w/ MVC1, I started getting drops within 3-5 minutes of each other (restarting with OSSC w/ ’10+’ didn’t help either).

So I’m stumped. It’s good with the first input I give it. But when I switch arcade system it’s dropping and switching back, that system begins to drop as well.

[vasilas432]

Can you please connect just the supergun in the scar5 input of the OSSC and play CPS3?

Thanks for your help

[darkstrider2]

Connected SuperGun directly into OSSC and into LCD monitor. Can confirm no drops playing on both CPS2 for 30 minutes and CPS3 for an hour.

Connecting SuperGun to Extron Crosspoint -> OSSC -> LCD monitor, the first drop happened in the 1st 3 minutes.

I jotted down the input on the LCD screen of the OSSC w/out Extron and w/ Extron.

SuperGun -> OSSC (CPS3): 265p 15.73khz 59.37hz
SuperGun -> Extron-> OSSC (CPS3): 264p 15.72khz 59.56hz (I did see it as 262p 15.73khz 59.59hz for the 1st 5 seconds when I turned on the supergun)

Ok, so I’m convinced the Extron must be doing something to the signal. I remember connecting supergun -> PVM-1-out -> Extron -> PVM-2-in only worked if I added a sync stripper SCART->BNC before the Extron, PVM-2-in showed faded green video straight out the extron, with video acting like there wasn’t sync (ext sync was turned on). If I did SuperGun -> PVM-1-out -> PVM-2-in directly, PVM-2-in reads the CPS2. Only with the sync stripper to the Extron would the Extron output correctly to the PVM-2.

So @Marqs, so what you think happens to the signal if it goes through as Extron? Is CPS2/3 feeding variable sync which the Extron has to readjust?

It just seems like there’s not much I can do at this point except hope in a firmware upgrade fix, if Marqs ever gets a chance to test with Extron Crosspoint w/ ADSP models and test with arcade boards.

[vasilas432]

Now you have to do test No2 :
Connect your supergun directly to PVM 1. Then connect line out of the PVM 1 to OSSC.

Let us know what you find please.

Thanks for the TEST No1

[darkstrider2]

Can’t do Test 2.0. My only BNC->M Scart Cable has a resistor inside it specifically for Extron crosspoint outputs that I didn’t mod myself. Even if I just used it, it’s not a good test because it’s technically not a ‘passthrough’ cable, so the OSSC will probably read something different. I don’t have any other BNC->SCART cables. Sorry.

I can make due without the PVMout, I ordered some extension SCART cables for my SuperGun SCART to connect direct long distance to the OSSC in my setup. I’ll just switch out the Extron Crosspoint output SCART and this one whenever I switch between arcade vs console.

[vasilas432]

Try that cable. It doesn’t matter if it has a 470 ohm resistor in the sync line. This resistor is good for the OSSC.

Anyway if you try it you will discover that you will have disconnects like you had with Extron. I have come the conclusion that Extron’s signal output is fine. If you feed a PVM with Extron and your supergun you will never have disconnects. This is OSSC very sensitive.

If Marqs can find a solution and fix the issue with a firmware update, it would be super!
For now if there is no fix there is only one solution: Buy 2 OSSCs and have one dedicated with the supergun and one with Extron for the consoles. I am thinking of that myself because I have more than 80 arcade games and I could justify the cost.

[darkstrider2]

If I understand you correctly, using a SuperGun -> any SCART switch w/ multiple outs like the gscartw -> OSSC -> LCD monitor .. will have eventual disconnects? It’s not just a PVMout or the Extron.

[darkstrider2]

Okay, I did CPS3 testing with just SuperGun -> PVMin -> PVMout -> OSSC -> LCD monitor (BenQ RL2455hm) and it did have disconnects every few minutes.

So you’re right, it’s not the Extron, it’s basically any ‘middle-man’ in between the SuperGun and OSSC that can make the OSSC drop for CPS-3 and below systems. So the OSSC is sensitive. And I’m sure the same issue can be found if someone tests CPS3,2 with a gscartw.

Looking over at [1], looks like other people have the same OSSC sensitivty problem with Extron and Line outs from PVM, and I’m sure this is an issue with gscartw, but for a very tiny minority of customers (because I’m assuming people get OSSC to support multiple consoles.

@Marqs , would this be something you can priority to look into the OSSC mode sensitivty with arcade boards (maybe for at least CPS3/CPS2) in the next few firmwares?

[1] http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?272625-OSSC-through-Extron-won%92t-sync

[vasilas432]

I don’t know if gscartw causes disconnects because I don’t have one. If space is not an issue Extron is a better choice.

I tried a cheaper method though. I bought a passive bandridge switch for 50€ shipped and connected to input 1 the supergun, input 2 Extron (which carries all consoles) and the bandridge output goes to OSSC. While bandridge is a passive switch it can’t alter the signal. I still had disconnects but rarer.

[vasilas432]

When I’ll have my new OSSC back from RMA I will modify a cheap Chinese passive scart switch and try it. Those switches have about 30cm cable which I will replace by soldering a high quality cable. With those switches you just need to have one device turned on at a time.

If that doesn’t work either I may buy a second OSSC to use with all consoles.

[vasilas432]

Just for the record I also tried the line out of the PVM while the PVM is turned off. Still disconnects. A turned off PVM can only add resistance in the RGB and sync lines. Only Marqs can find a solution to this.

Do those few arcade boards have something different in their sync output and when connected through other devices to OSSC make it to loose sync? What bothers OSSC? Why a PVM won’t loose sync in the same circumstances? (A supergun connected through Extron to the PVM)

[darkstrider2]

To add: if my SCART extension cables coming don’t work/degrade the video quality to direct connect to OOSC, I’ll resign to use my XRGB mini instead for CPS2/CPS3. I’ve confirmed that Supergun -> PVM -> Extron -> XRGB mini -> LCD monitor doesn’t disconnect.

[vasilas432]

Disconnects happen also for MVS and Irem M92. Maybe more boards
How much lag your lcd monitor has? Do you feel the additional lag with the Framemeister?

[darkstrider2]

I use a BenQ Rl2755hm. According to displaylag, it’s 10ms. The smallest I’ve seen on that site is 9ms. Framemeister has 14-16ms processing vs OSSC’s 1-2ms.

I don’t feel the difference between OSSC and the framemeister whether I use that monitor or my HDTV (40ms). If I care about playing with least lag, I go play on my PVM, I can definitely feel it beats OSSC/Framemeister+LCD, esp with a game like megaman.

The only difference I can feel/tell is that the colors are better (more accurate to PVM) playing on OSSC.

However as far as Framemeister advantages over the OSSC, it’s near-perfect for 480i deinterlacing to 480p,720p 1080p versus settling for bobing with OSSC. Also with zoom, it can achieve 6x integer scale for GBA (almost fills screen) or 7x with GB/GBC (fills entire screen) if you have GBPlayer for GC or Super Gameboy. Also with Framemesiter, it can zoom the 480p PSP component output 4x + zoom to fill the entire screen.

Only issues is framemeister is that there isnt a FirebrandX profile for arcade boards except neogeo, so I have to use that or another 5x and adjust the zoom/brightness. Also, a sync stripper is a must for CPS2 to play nicely with the framemeister. Also, 480p scaling doesn’t look good, OSSC can passthrough or scale 2x for 960p and looks good, framemesiter cannot.

So I say,

240p : OSSC > Framemeister slightly
480i : Framemesister > OSSC
480p : OSSC > Framemeister significantly

[vasilas432]

Thanks for the description. It was great. My monitor, Dell 27” wide color gamut, has 21 ms of lag and to tell the truth I can’t understand the difference between the PVM and the OSSC with that monitor. Colors are deeper than the PVM and looks definitely better. Scanlines at 31% and 5x look better or equal to the PVM too. OSSC is a very important piece of kit.

I am thinking to retire my PVM and put a second monitor in its place. I am thinking an Acer 32” 4K ips 4ms lag. It will combine good with a Framemeister coming already with the mail. I can make use of those 2 monitor together playing at the same time using the HDMI Extron

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