Uneven scanlines in all mode

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  • #25262
    SlemuolbymaS
    Participant

    Hi everyone,

    I just bought an OSSC and I’m new here. I’ve been looking for a fix to my problem but I can’t find one so I must be missing something important.

    I’m using the OSSC on a 27″ Samsung CFG70 monitor from 2016 and on a Panasonic TX-PF50G30 plasma from 2011. Only 2x mode works on the panasonic but all modes are functional on the Samsung. The problem I have is that scanlines aren’t properly alined on both screens, in all modes.

    The only thing that kind of works is to descrease V active from 288 to 270 for PAL material, and from 240 to 216 on NTSC. On my monitor it zooms in the image until everything looks even. It works ok for 50hz but in 60hz the image ends up cropped on top and bottom as it would be in 5x mode, because I need to zoom in too much to get proper alignement. With the Panasonic zoom doesn’t work and it just acts like the vertical mask function, covering the image.

    This happends with both horizontal scanlines and atlernate scanlines that I like to use for 480i games.

    I don’t know if the problem is my monitor and TV, I tried on two other screen and the exact same problem appears. I can’t find people having the same issue so maybe I’m looking for the wrong keywords over the internet…

    Thanks to anybody that could help me. If it’s possible I could post photos to better illustrate what I’m experiencing.

    #25263
    Steo
    Participant

    I have the same problem on 1080p screens. Some monitors will allow a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, but my CFG73 (slightly newer version of yours) doesn’t allow it either. PAL lines up perfectly with V Active 270, but I could never really get uniform scanlines in NTSC unless I used 5x 1920×1080 on the OSSC. As you said, the problem is that it crops the image vertically also. It’s not noticeable on my B7 because it’s 4k, so they just seem to look a lot more uniform on that display no matter what.

    #25264
    SlemuolbymaS
    Participant

    So you think it happens on all 1080p screen ? I’ve read a lot of pages here and on the shmups topic but that’s not an issue that is clearly pointed out.

    All I’ve been reading about the OSSC before buying it was about the ability for a screen to display all the available modes, but not really about the uniformity of the scanlines… My problem using 5x is how sharp it is compared to 2x mode that looks more similar to a CRT with scanlines on. They are really thin in 5x, maybe a futur update will allow to make them look thicker.

    Can you tell me more about how it looks on your LG ? If it makes it easier to work with the OSSC I will consider buying one of their models in the futur, but for the moment I guess I’m stuck enjoying the product.

    #25265
    Steo
    Participant

    Well some 1080p screens that can resize the screen with a 1:1 ratio won’t have the issue. The problem is that not many devices can actually do that even though it’s a simple feature. A lot of people probably don’t even pay any attention to whether the lines are uniform, but I guess you’re like me, it just annoys me if they’re not. 😛

    Edit: I’ll set up a 240p console on the LG, take a picture of it and share it.

    Edit 2: 240p in 5x (1600×1200) with 320×240 optimised mode looks like this up really close:

    scanlines

    It looks perfectly uniform to my eyes from viewing distance which is pretty close. Keep in mind that the image was taken extremely close up.

    #25269
    SlemuolbymaS
    Participant

    Thanks for sharing ! It looks really nice, scanlines look thicker than in 5x on my samsung monitor, but maybe it’s just the closeup. Does uniformity looks like this in other modes on this TV ? If not, does the V Active setting allow the image to zoom in and out or does it apply only to pc monitors ?

    Colors are splendid by the way, I guess even for other contents these LG OLED worth it.

    #25272
    Steo
    Participant

    It seems to even look good to me even in 3x as 720p x 3 = 2160p (4k) I Also have the scanlines at 100% just to show the uniformity. It has so many pixels that almost everything looks nice and uniform so long as it’s set up properly.

    Here’s the full image with the scanlines still at 100%. My PS2 happened to be set up so I just used Rayman:

    Full image scanlines

    Here’s a direct link in case it’s easier to make them out with a larger image.

    #25281
    SlemuolbymaS
    Participant

    First time I see Rayman looking so good on a flat panel I think… I can’t believe some people play this without scanlines !

    This TV could be a perfect match for the OSSC, does 2x mode look even as well ? I like the “roundness” of it. I’m also playing a lot of 480i games and thoses are only available in 2x or 4x mode when using bob deinterlace (I like the flicker effect, reminds me of playing on CRT), so I wonder if alternate scanlines would be correctly aligned as well.

    At least it’s a good thing I bought the OSSC before changing my TV, now I know…

    #25282
    Steo
    Participant

    Alternating scanlines do look really good in 480i. 🙂

    I used to play Rayman without them on the old TV, but I think the scanlines look really nice on the OLED set, so I like using them now. They really seem mandatory in interlaced modes. Also yeah, they look fairly uniform to me, even in 2x.

    EDIT: Just out of curiosity, what strength do you use your scanlines on?

    #25284
    SlemuolbymaS
    Participant

    I usually set them at 100% for all content, I tried to lower them to see if it would look more even but I can still see the misalignment.

    First time I used alternating scanlines I was really blown away ! I can’t understand why the framemeister is still recommended over the OSSC for 480i, with Bob x4 and alternating scanlines it looks pretty close to a CRT to me.

    #25285
    Steo
    Participant

    It’s worth pointing out that even with a 576i source on this TV, I still need to use V Active 270 to get uniform scanlines, otherwise it just results in an absolute mess.

    EDIT: Actually in 4x, the scanlines are still messed up and I have to use V Active on either 269 or 271, otherwise I get weird artifacts. Kind of weird.

    EDIT 2: Actually, the TV doesn’t seem to have the issue when it’s set to the game picture mode.

    #25298
    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    You should definitely be using game mode even if you don’t care about the lag, picture processing designed for film content won’t work well with videogame content.

    I’m not a fan of the 5x mode scanlines either (same on the Framemeister 1080p mode) but using another mode should give a more analogue look.

    #25301
    SlemuolbymaS
    Participant

    I tried to use game mode on the panasonic but the aspect ratio is stuck in 16/9 and it doesn’t seem possible to change it… And on the monitor I can set the aspect ratio to 4/3, 16/9 or “adjust to screen” as long as I’m in 2x mode, but from 3x mode the only choices I have are “auto” and 16/9.

    I notice the V. Backporch setting also change how the scanlines are displayed at a certain point, along with V. active I thought I could align them in 60hz but so far no luck.

    50 Hz content works fine but everything displayed in 60hz is a mess when scanlines are activated. On the monitor it could be fixable if V. active could be increased to zoom out until it’s perfectly scaled but it has no effect passed the value of 258.

    #25312
    Steo
    Participant

    You should definitely be using game mode even if you don’t care about the lag, picture processing designed for film content won’t work well with videogame content.

    I have my TV in PC mode which has the same lag in all modes whether it’s game mode or not, but I didn’t realise it messed with the picture so badly outside of game mode. I can see what you mean though, as it’s clearly processing the picture, which I don’t want.

    I feel like maybe 3x scanlines would look better tbh after checking them out also.

    #25320
    nmalinoski
    Participant

    On a more basic level, won’t scanlines for PAL content look bad anyway, because no flat panel display has a native resolution with a height evenly divisible by 576?

    What SlemuolbymaS did, decreasing V Active to 270 for PAL and to 216 for NTSC, sounds like it works because 270 is an even 4x and 216 is an even 5x to 1080 (which can be doubled to 4K), but at the cost of cropping.

    So, then, would the only way to get even scanlines on full frames be to windowbox a 1x scale of 576 for PAL and a 2x scale of 480 for NTSC (Or 3x and 4x respectively if we could go straight to 4K)?

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