Newbie Starting Out – need opinions

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  • #22812
    Soundwave GI
    Participant

    Hey all, new to the forum and am making my first attempt to go HD as I don’t have the room anymore for my CRT setup. I’ve ordered an OSSC and am eagerly awaiting. However, there is so much information overload that I think I’ve got a grasp on how to proceed, but need some suggestions from the experienced user. Here’s my situation:
    – US NTSC Consoles. Starting with SNES (original and JR), Genesis 1 and NES. I plan on modding the NES.
    – I plan on getting SCART cables for the mentioned systems and perhaps N64 going forward (I’m aware I’ll need a particular N64 console to make this easy(er))
    – I’d like to get a SCART switch to allow for 6 consoles.
    – Display will be 2016 4K HDR 2016 OLED. I’ve seen some success on other models in the same line, hoping I’ll get lucky.

    So a few questions:
    – so is SCART the way to go?
    – if so, cables from retrogamingcables are the best?
    – SCART switch, Shinybow 6 port? Does this have negative affects on picture quality or frame delay?

    I’m not afraid of spending the money to get it as best as possibly, the market is just so flooded with options and the results are so varied, I figured I’d better ask the pros. I apologize if this is in the wrong spot. Thanks in advance.

    #22815
    paulb_nl
    Participant

    Your SNES Jr needs an RGB mod if you want to use it with the OSSC. Do you know which revision your original SNES is?

    The best RGB SCART cables are from Retro-Access. They make full shielded coax cables and also allow for easy access to the inside of the console connector if you ever need it.

    https://retro-access.com/collections/scart/products/super-nintendo-stereo-rgb-scart-lead-snes-csync-full-shield-grounded-cable

    Cheap SCART switches usually cause some picture quality loss. There is a high quality SCART switch being sold on shmups but it is not cheap. https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50851

    Don’t forget that if you use a SCART switch then you also need a shielded cable from the switch to the OSSC: https://retro-access.com/collections/scart-to-scart-jp-21-to-scart-hookups-etc/products/copy-of-jp-21-to-scart-cable-pro-coaxial-multicore-for-switch-boxes

    #22816
    Soundwave GI
    Participant

    First off, thanks for the excellent info. I’m beginning to think it makes most sense to mod my SNES jr and just keep the original for the collection aspect. I haven’t opened it yet as I hadn’t had the time over the last week, but I’m guessing a 2-chip as the serial begins with UN249. I gather I won’t know for sure until it’s opened in a couple days. Rather than seeking out a 1-chip, as I am OCD about such things, I feel like I should go the Jr route. Only issue there is that I see people post about issues w sound…that could be due to cables though? Thanks for the other links. I’m going to order some cables tonight and then when I get the OSSC and make sure it plays nice w my display and then purchase a switch. I’ll certainly look into your recommendation. I do want the best picture quality while still having the speed closest to the original as possible. This is more important to me than cost. Its a great time to be older and getting back into your games and having some disposable income for hobbies.

    #22817
    Soundwave GI
    Participant

    Which RGB mod for the Jr would be best? The added board type…is have to look up the name, but it’s saved on my laptop and I’m on my phone now.
    Also, the gscartsw v3.4 seems to be discontinued. Which would be the model you recommend from shmups is the way to go.

    Thanks Again!

    #22821
    paulb_nl
    Participant

    A serial of UN249 indicates a CPU-GPM revision which has the best video quality of non-1CHIP revisions. I don’t know about issues with sound. The sound chip in the SNES Jr is the same as the original model APU and 1-CHIP revisions.

    They sell an RGB board here on the site but I cannot recommend it because it outputs the wrong CSYNC voltage (non-TTL) on pin 3 and also it does not have S-video. You would need to replace some components on the mod board to make it output TTL CSYNC to make it compatible with the same cable that your original SNES uses.
    https://videogameperfection.com/products/nintendo-bypass-amp/

    Voultar’s RGB board has a TTL jumper and has S-video support. https://voultar.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51

    The gscartsw_lite is the successor to the gscartsw 3.4. Superg is making a new revision of the gscartsw_lite which should be available soon.

    #22830
    NoAffinity
    Participant

    I recently picked up this scart switch. I cannot see any difference in the video image, between going through this guy and going direct to the OSSC. The general consensus is: if it’s a cheap scart switch, you get what you pay for. But, i believe this one is the exception.

    https://otaku-games.com/index.php?_route_=6-port-rgb-scart-switch.html

    But of course, if money truly is no object, then there are plenty of high-end SCART switches with matching price tags.

    For the SNES jr., you can do a simple THS7314 or THS7374 based amp board. Voultar’s is THS7374 based. You may also want to consider the dejitter mod. It’s pretty much necessary, to get higher line modes, unless your TV and or capture device are extremely forgiving (most are not). Sold here by VGP.

    The N64 will also need an RGB mod if you do go that route. It does not output RGB natively. The capability is there, the video amp is not. Tim Worthington has great N64 RGB boards, which include a deblur feature. Possibly the same place that you’re looking to for the NES mod: http://etim.net.au/n64rgb/.

    #22831
    Soundwave GI
    Participant

    I see the new switch goes up for preorder on 8/27, so I’ll take a look.
    As for these cables:
    Super Nintendo stereo RGB SCART lead SNES CSYNC SHIELDED, GROUNDED cable

    …they seem to be out of stock. Is there another outlet that offers these? I doubt it, but better ask.

    After this info, I think I’ll be modding my snes Jr, and going that route. I looked into the board you suggested, and it sounds like I just need the one board and then may have to make some jumper changes depending on my console? I can deal with that. I’m admittedly no pro, but I’ve modded a handful of systems in my time that required some tight soldering.
    All in all, it appears to be a game of patience…waiting for parts to be made/restocked, so I’ll accrue them as I can.
    Thanks again!

    #22833
    paulb_nl
    Participant

    @NoAffinity RetroRGB has done a comparison of the stock S-RGB encoder vs THS amps and the result was that the 7314 had the worst video quality and 7374 the best. So the S-RGB encoder or 7374 should be used.

    @Soundwave They add the stock monday-friday at 10AM EST. So you have to wake up early to buy from them 😛

    You’ll just have to install the RGB board and bridge the TTL jumper. Voultar has a video how to install it on his page.

    #22835
    NoAffinity
    Participant

    ^good info. Looks like retrorgb did an overhaul recently and this some new information (unless it was already there and I just didnt see it). I dont remember ever seeing 7316 comparison shots and seeing those, I’m contemplating revising my homemade amps with 7316’s.

    #22836
    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Insurrection Industries have the best SCART cables in the USA – https://insurrectionindustries.com/product-category/cables/

    They sell an RGB board here on the site but I cannot recommend it because it outputs the wrong CSYNC voltage (non-TTL) on pin 3 and also it does not have S-video.

    From a quality perspective it’s better to correct the sync internally than in the cable, though you’d struggle to notice any difference practically.

    #22843
    Soundwave GI
    Participant

    Thanks to all for the info.
    So far I have ordered:
    – OSSC obviously
    – SNES shielded csync SCART cable from retroaccess..they became available this morning! @BuckoA51…I had already ordered before your post, but I’ll have other cables to order. I checked those out and they look great, so thank you!
    – Voultar’s SNES THS7374 RGB bypass kit. @NoAffinity, I’ll check out the N64 mod you suggested, I’m definitely all about the deblur, thanks!

    So now I just wait for parts and give it a test. As long as it all plays nice with my display, I’ll probably order the upcoming switch from shmups and should be on my way. Thanks again for the advice, it was just what I needed.

    #22844
    paulb_nl
    Participant

    @NoAffinity It looks like the 7316 has about the same quality as the 7374 with LPF off.

    Insurrection Industries have the best SCART cables in the USA

    Their cables don’t even have any shielding on the RGB lines. Only on the sync line and audio. Also their CSYNC resistor is in the SCART end instead of in the console end. Certainly not the best. RetroRGB review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOXpM1YyZBM

    From a quality perspective it’s better to correct the sync internally than in the cable, though you’d struggle to notice any difference practically.

    Thats only true when the sync resistor is in the SCART end and only with an unshielded cable. By forcing people to use a cable without a resistor you are making it incompatible with CSYNC cables for stock consoles. It is likely that someone will connect such a cable to a stock console and send 5 volt to their OSSC or even worse a stock PAL console with 12 volt. All of this can be avoided by just outputting TTL sync.

    #22845
    NoAffinity
    Participant

    Well, I was comparing the pictures here: http://retrorgb.com/thsamps.html

    Is the 7314 filter on, in those side-by-side comparisons? It doesn’t clearly state it, that I can see. Frankly, to my eyes, the 7316 and 7374 w/ filter off look identical, and the 7314 looks slightly less appealing. But, correct me if I’m wrong, these are somewhat zoomed in screen grabs, and from normal sitting distance, you wouldn’t really see any difference.

    Nonetheless, I ordered some 7316’s, just based on those pictures…and because they are $3 shipped for a 5-pack…and because I find joy in modding my mods. :p

    #22858
    Soundwave GI
    Participant

    One more question on the mini vs 2-chip. I’ve seen during my research that all 1 chips have some issues in a few games like demons crest with some flicker at the top of the screen. With the retroaccess c-sync cable purchased, I could use that with my “un-modded” 2-chip through the OSSC to see if I like the trade off for sharpness vs the slight visual issues with the 1-chip JR correct? From what I can see, that very cable works fine with a stock 2-chip. Thanks!

    #22859
    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Thats only true when the sync resistor is in the SCART end and only with an unshielded cable. By forcing people to use a cable without a resistor you are making it incompatible with CSYNC cables for stock consoles.

    Definitely better to have the resistor on the console end but even so the best way is to correct internally. Voultar even explains why in a post on Shmups but I can’t find it at the moment.

    It is likely that someone will connect such a cable to a stock console and send 5 volt to their OSSC or even worse a stock PAL console with 12 volt. All of this can be avoided by just outputting TTL sync.

    Many older cables lack the resistor on the sync line anyway. When Borti originally designed the amp I would guess that’s how most of them were. For the +12 volt I guess the resistor could act like a makeshift fuse.

    I could use that with my “un-modded” 2-chip through the OSSC to see if I like the trade off for sharpness vs the slight visual issues with the 1-chip JR correct? From what I can see, that very cable works fine with a stock 2-chip. Thanks!

    Yep as long as it’s a NTSC console.

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