Only Passthrough with Wii and only 2x with Saturn?

[dergudesiggi]

Hello everyone!

I’ve had the OSSC 1.6 (now on 0.82) for a little while with my Neo Geo AES and Dreamcast. The former runs smooth with 4x and the latter with 2x, creating fantastic images on my Philips 43PUS6551. Black friday brought two new additions to the collection, a PAL Saturn and a PAL Wii. Been doing some research on RGB cables for the Saturn and ended up with thefoo.83’s. The Wii came with a noname component cable.

So far so good, but for some reason I’m unable to run the Wii in anything other than passthrough while the Saturn tops out with Line2X.

When I set 2x for 480/576p with the Wii, I keep getting green light on the OSSC, but unsupported resolution on the TV.

What I’ve tried to get 2x out of the Wii:
– Change aspect ratio in Wii settings from 4:3 to 16:9 and back
– Double-checked Wii outputs at 480p
– Switched output to DVI mode
– Tried 480p Auto, DTV 480p
– Tried FirebrandX’ settings for GC: http://www.firebrandx.com/osscprofiles.html
– Tried the suggested tweaks here: https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/tips-tweaks-lx3-lx4-lx5-modes/

What baffles me is that I have no problem achieving 2x for 480p on the Dreamcast.

Now for the Saturn, up to 2x is fine, but more than that gives me an unsupported resolution error on the TV.

What I’ve tried to get more than 2x out of the Saturn:
– Switched output to DVI mode
– Tried the suggested timings here: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Optimal_timings
– Tried FirebrandX’ settings here: http://www.firebrandx.com/osscprofiles.html
– Tried the suggested tweaks here: https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/tips-tweaks-lx3-lx4-lx5-modes/

It appears that most if not all OSSC Saturn settings are for NTSC 60Hz Saturns, mine is a PAL 50Hz unit. The OSSC potential incompatibilities page mentions problems with modded PAL units at 60Hz but mine isn’t modded.

I’m not sure where to go from here. Appreciate any input!

Thanks 🙂

[BuckoA51]

What baffles me is that I have no problem achieving 2x for 480p on the Dreamcast.

That makes no sense to me either I’m afraid but..

Now for the Saturn, up to 2x is fine, but more than that gives me an unsupported resolution error on the TV.

Support for PC resolutions (i.e anything other than 2x or 5x 1080p) at 50hz PAL are rare. No PC ever output these resolutions at 50hz you see. Most TVs/monitors will reject this. I think some of the ABT scalers support it (Edge, but maybe not VP50/Pro) but yeah, not very common at all.

[Steo]

For the likes of Saturn, you might get 720p50 working with tweaks but you’ll be cropping a lot of the picture vertically. This might not matter for some games with black borders.

There’s also a tweak I talked about that gets you 4x 1080p50, but that might only work if you already get a picture at 5x with the OSSC set to 1080p. I prefer the 4x method for PAL since you don’t lose a lot of vertical detail that way.

Edit: Try the PAL settings for 3x 720p or 4x 1080p listed here: https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/tips-tweaks-lx3-lx4-lx5-modes

If it doesn’t work then I’m afraid your display just doesn’t support it.

[dergudesiggi]

BuckoA51 and Steo,

many thanks for taking the time to reply!

Support for PC resolutions (i.e anything other than 2x or 5x 1080p) at 50hz PAL are rare. No PC ever output these resolutions at 50hz you see. Most TVs/monitors will reject this. I think some of the ABT scalers support it (Edge, but maybe not VP50/Pro) but yeah, not very common at all.

Hmm, should’ve gotten a NTSC Saturn then, I guess? I’ve been tinkering some more and managed to get 2x from the Wii using VESA 640×480@60. DTV480 would suddenly work as well, but crops the right side of the image. Why I managed to get it working right after posting here is beyond me, but maybe this will help someone else with the same problem.

For the likes of Saturn, you might get 720p50 working with tweaks but you’ll be cropping a lot of the picture vertically. This might not matter for some games with black borders.

There’s also a tweak I talked about that gets you 4x 1080p50, but that might only work if you already get a picture at 5x with the OSSC set to 1080p. I prefer the 4x method for PAL since you don’t lose a lot of vertical detail that way.

I was previously limited to 4x with the Neo Geo but more tinkering today enabled me to go to 5x with 5x set to 1600×1200. I’d be happy with 4x with the Saturn, if only I could achieve it. Care to elaborate on the tweaks you mentioned? 🙂

[Steo]

I posted it here.

As I said though, that might only work if it already works with 5x. Worth a shot though. If that doesn’t work then you can try 3x and you just need to decrease V. Active to 240 and V Backporch to about 42.

[dergudesiggi]

Thanks again, Steo. I’ll get back to tinkering and report back with my findings.

Edit: Here’s what I found with the Saturn:

1. Increase H. Samplerate to 2200 and H. Active to 1920.
2. Decrease V.Active to 270.
3. Increase V.Backporch until you get picture (approximately 28).

TV says no.

Alternatively, if you cannot force 4:3 you can attempt a Lx4 1440×1080 50Hz 4:3 image: increase H.Samplerate to 1900, H.Active to 1440, h.sync 150, h.backporc 212.

TV says no.

If aspect ratio still looks off, try H.Samplerate 2460, with both H.Sync and H.Backporch around 215.

TV says yes!

But aspect ratio is totally botched. It’s near fullscreen on my 16:9 TV, and I haven’t found any way to force 4:3 on the TV. I have plenty of image options (stretch, fill, manual zoom, original) but no 4:3. The manual doesn’t mention it either. Plus, the pixels are somewhat … wobbly or shaky? I don’t know how to describe it better, English is not my native language, sorry.

Here’s a quick clip, hope this helps explain what I mean: https://youtu.be/Dsx-kzYbNd8

[Steo]

A lot of people including myself are having that wobbling issue and it seems to work when you just unplug the scart from the OSSC, then plug it back in.

What TV do you have? Some unfortunately don’t allow forcing 4:3 and that’s the only issue with this method. Samsung and LG TV’s usually seem to allow forcing 4:3.

EDIT: My Saturn Model 2 actually just has this wobbling issue in general. I was thinking of the PS1, but you’re using a Saturn, I had forgotten. Looking at the video, yours does seem to be wobbling a little bit more than mine normally would. I will set up my Saturn and test it with my copy of Sega Rally to see if it’s the same.

[dergudesiggi]

My TV is a Philips 43PUS6551, the Saturn is a Model 1 PAL. I didn’t notice this issue previously, maybe it wasn’t that obvious with 2x. It’s not limited to Sega Rally though, I’m seeing the same with Castlevania Symphony.

[Steo]

I don’t see anything about being able to force 4:3 on your TV unfortunately, but what I do see is that you can put the channel into PC mode. Maybe that could help with compatibility possibly?

According to the manual, it says (menu is the little gear/cog icon):

To set the TV to the ideal setting…
1 - Press menu, select All Settings and press OK.
2 - Select Picture and press > (right) to enter the
menu.
3 - Select Advanced > Computer.
4 - Select On or Off.
5 - Press < (left) repeatedly if necessary, to close
the menu.

I’m not sure it will help because your Saturn is 50Hz, but it’s worth a try and might help with 60Hz sources such as your Wii.

EDIT: If you’re stuck in 16:9 and nothing else is working, you can try this. It will still be stretched, but it won’t be as bad as H Samplerate 2460. Change H Backporch and H Synclen to 128, then H Samplerate to 2176. If you have no picture, increase H Samplerate in increments of 3 until you get an image. I’m not sure if it will work on your TV, but it’s worth a try.

If I figure out anything better in the meantime, I’ll let you know. The options for PAL are just very limited.

[dergudesiggi]

Steo, thanks again for all your efforts. I should’ve mentioned that I had the TV already set to Computer mode. When running the DC or Wii in 2x, it would show 960p as PC mode. With your comments towards PAL limitations it seems that a NTSC Saturn would’ve been a better idea? I was thinking of modding it to to 60Hz, but according to the JunkerHQ Wiki, that’s not going to work well with the OSSC either. Maybe I should flip my Saturn for a Japanese one, they can be had fairly cheap.

[Steo]

I have mine modded and it does work, but just like a lot of other consoles, it’s off spec and only goes about 59.3Hz. I might try get my hands on a second crystal of the correct frequency and fit that to the system since I have already put the switch on mine.

The Japanese ones do seem to be much cheaper also.

But yeah, on my old Samsung TV, the Saturn works at that odd refresh rate. It doesn’t work properly at all on my 4k set which again I’ll mention is extremely fussy. It’s one of those “your mileage may vary” scenarios and it depends on your display.

[dergudesiggi]

I thought so. I wont be able to test your latest suggestions until I return from a business trip in a couple of weeks. I think I will run with the setup as is for now and maybe revisit getting a NTSC variant in 2019. After all, I’m off much better than than I was when I created the thread.

Thanks again!

[Steo]

No problem. It’s unfortunately just your TV’s limitation, but you’re doing better than me with forced 16:9 PAL 2x 🙂

720p50 could work for you if you haven’t tried that yet. That get you 3x and the correct aspect ratio, but then you’re still cutting off some of the picture vertically.

I feel like with most TV’s 60Hz will have a lot more compatibility due to PC modes.

[dergudesiggi]

Forced 16:9 2x sounds nasty. Already left home so no ability to tinker for the next couple of weeks but I haven’t had any luck with 3x using the settings in the guide we talked about. You can imagine my surprise when 3x wouldn’t work but 4x would, although with funky aspect ratio and wobbly pixels.

[Steo]

You’d have been sorted if your TV had allowed forcing 4:3. I’m not sure what’s causing that wave effect, but mines definitely not that bad. You could try play with the sync settings, but I’m not sure if it will help.

My 4k set won’t work with anything above 2x, it really doesn’t look that great. 3x looks OK on 60Hz by means of 1366×768, but then my Saturn won’t work that way on the TV due to the off spec refresh rate of 59.3Hz. ?

Your TV supports a lot of 60Hz PC resolutions, I had looked that the manual for you and it states:

Resolutions (amongst others)
• 640 x 480p - 60 Hz
• 800 x 600p - 60 Hz
• 1024 x 768p - 60 Hz
• 1280 x 768p - 60 Hz
• 1360 x 765p - 60 Hz
• 1360 x 768p - 60 Hz
• 1280 x 1024p - 60 Hz
• 1920 x 1080p - 60 Hz
• 3840 x 2160p - 24 Hz, 25 Hz, 30 Hz, 50 Hz, 60 Hz

Every mode should work for you in 60Hz and if not, they definitely will with tweaks.

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