Retrotink 2x pro saturates colors

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  • #36103
    Thasios
    Participant

    Hi

    I bought a retrotink 2x pro, and i think i might have gotten a bad batch. The interlacing seems to work, but colors are WAY of. It seems like it saturates colors alot, or just perhaps boosts the red color. Honestly picture is alot better when i just hook the games up directly to the tv.

    View post on imgur.com

    First picture is how it looks when i use the retrotink 2x pro, second is directly into the tv.

    i tried several consoles and it seems to be the same with to happen to all of them, Nes, Snes, PS2, but it is definitely most noticable on my Genesis.

    Note: all consoles are PAL

    I have also tried on two different TVs and it’s the same issue.

    Is there any settings etc i am missing, or would the only solution be to replace the retrotink 2x pro?

    #36106
    Thasios
    Participant

    Also note: all consoles i hook up with composite.

    #36118
    Thasios
    Participant

    Another issue i noticed, when i have plugged in the retrotink 2x pro the resolution seems correct, 480/ 60p as description of the item says it will scale to. But when i actually turn on a game for the retrotink to scale, the tv sees the output resolution as 576 / 50p. See pictures below.

    View post on imgur.com

    #36119
    BuckoA51
    Keymaster

    Edit – The behavior above is to be expected if you feed in PAL consoles.

    I’ll drop Mike an email and ask him to look in on this thread too.

    We know from experience that Genesis/Megadrive does tend to have widely variable quality composite, so that could explain that.

    do you have any better quality connections to try? For PS2 for instance, it should be cheap and easy to move up to component which would give you a huge boost in picture quality.

    I’ve not tried SNES or NES with mine as of yet, my NES doesn’t output composite any more sadly.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by BuckoA51.
    #36125
    James-F
    Participant

    First, regarding resolution.
    The RT2xPro will switch the HDMI output resolution according to PAL/NTSC.
    Color Bars are always NTSC (480p), PAL consoles are (576p), NTSC consoles are 480p.

    Regarding PAL color saturation;
    PAL cables have additional 75ohm resistors in the cable, so a darker luma is expected and behaves like a CRT would, so the user adjusted for that in the old CRT.
    In your case it seems that your TV over-saturates the HDMI input PAL signal, but not in Composite input, since it affect all your PAL consoles even PS2 which it should not (I have tested multiple PAL consoles).
    Did you try to lower Saturation and bring Contrast up in your TV menu with PAL HDMI signal?

    #36131
    Thasios
    Participant

    Hi and thanks for answers.

    BuckoA51:

    I do not have any component cables, i would have to order, and also order a switch for it if i want to hook up more consoles using it. My goal with my setup is really to hook up as many consoles as i can in a as simple way as possible. Thats why now all my game for the time being uses composite and runs through an 8 way rca switch, as i am willing to sacrifice a bit of image quality to simplicity. The color problem is kind of an deal breaker though.

    James-F
    “In your case it seems that your TV over-saturates the HDMI input PAL signal, but not in Composite input, since it affect all PAL consoles even PS2 which it should not (I have tested multiple PAL consoles).
    Did you try to lower Saturation and bring Contrast up in your TV menu with PAL HDMI signal?”

    Well the saturation on the other consoles is not nearly as big of a problem as with the genesis, it just hints to the same problem as red colors etc are a bit excagerated compared to when i hook it up directly to the tv.

    I did try changing the settings, but i can’t quite get it right, and its a bummer having to change it every time.

    Regarding In your case it seems that your TV over-saturates the HDMI input PAL signal, but not in Composite input, since it affect all PAL consoles even PS2 which it should not (I have tested multiple PAL consoles).
    Did you “in your TV menu with PAL HDMI signal?” I do not think i have any options regarding wether it is PAL or NTSC hdmi signal.

    have also tried on an brand new 144hz predator computer screen, excactly the same issue.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Thasios.
    #36133
    Thasios
    Participant

    I have now tried also using a scart output from the genesis, into an scart-rca converter and then into the Retrotink, same issue. Is there anyway for me too hook up the genesis to the retrotink without getting this color-issues?

    #36134
    mikechi2
    Participant

    Unfortunately, the SCART to RCA converter probably just feeds the composite signal straight through – so it’s not surprising it is identical. The best way to test if your RT2X is broken is to spot check with a S-video or component source.

    As Matt and James-F mentioned, a big issue is that the Genesis and 32x have horrible composite encoder is probably the root cause of this effect. The automatic gain control on the RT2X’s decoder is turned off to emulate how a CRT would handle these signals.

    #36135
    Thasios
    Participant

    So in other words there is no way i can hook up my Genesis to the Retrotink 2X without getting this issue? that kinda sucks since it is also kinda the main reason i bought it 😛 I have tried to change settings on the TV but it really does not get “good”, as it seems like when i lower saturation/change contrast it just makes it dull instead. It feels like it is mostly enchancing the red colors.

    “RT2X’s decoder is turned off to emulate how a CRT would handle these signals.” Then why does this issue not occur when i plug it into one of my CRT-tvs? this problem ONLY occurs when i use the retrotink 2x, all other scenarios it works fine.

    #36136
    James-F
    Participant

    8 way rca switch you say…
    Can you please try connecting directly?

    Also, can you please be more specific if this saturation happens with ALL your PAL consoles or only the Mega Drive, and whether you see the same without the 8-way RCA switch?

    #36139
    Thasios
    Participant

    I have tried connecting it directly, no change.

    The saturation happens with all my consoles, but genesis shows it the worst.

    Here is a comparison with the snes. First link is with retrotink 2x pro, second is plugged directly into the TV. it’s hard to get good pictures of the tv though 😛

    Honsestly, in my opinion the image is alot better when plugged into the tv. Is there any settings i should change? It feels like whatever i do it still looks better just hooked up to the tv. It is just the interlacing that is better with the retrotink, and i want that…

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

    #36140
    James-F
    Participant

    The RT2x processes the image like a CRT would, we’ve tested this multiple times with Sony CRTs, BVM/PVM, etc.
    If you don’t see the same effect with your CRT it is because you compensated for that with your CRT adjustments,, and your flat panel LCD Composite input has Auto Gain turned on like most modern flat panel TVs and obviously will not look like the RT2x.

    I think we can have a solution for this type of problem too.

    @Mike
    , you have mail.

    #36142
    Thasios
    Participant

    I have myself not had to make any adjustments for anything on any of my CRT’s, i have always used just standard settings on all of them, and i have never seen any of my mega drives look like that.

    #36143
    mikechi2
    Participant

    Thanks to James-F – he modified the firmware so that the auto-gain control is re-enabled when the COMB flip is set to ‘Auto’. You can e-mail me at retrotink2@gmail.com for the HEX file.

    Additionally to further clarify:

    *Genesis encoders are awful. There is a chance it will not improve for Genesis/32X devices
    *It is worth double checking, via good quality s-video or component cables, if you believe there is something wrong with your copy of the device.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by mikechi2.
    #36146
    Thasios
    Participant

    Well, while it did help somewhat against the “redness”, i would not say it is good. Theres just too much detailed being lost going through the retrotink, just look at the lizard.

    View post on imgur.com

    same as for the Snes, alot of details being lost:

    View post on imgur.com

    No matter what settings i change on the tv, i just can’t get the color right. And i would absolutly think its just the retrotink not working with my particular setup, but i have tried with several consoles, 3 mega drives, two snes, and alot of others etc, on two different tv’s and a computer monitor, and it is all the same result. I believe either i have gotten a bad sample, or i am just too picky. Unless there is something else i could try? i mean i get the advice to try with component, but if the colors only are gonna be correct with component and not composite then it is not really the product i have been searching for.

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